Forums: Index > Chat discussion > Re-work the chat rules

I believe it's time we work on the chat rules. Earlier there were users complaning how badly the rules where on the chat room and the chat isn't a place to be talking about them but to socialize. I would like to request some of the rules changed or removed for example:

1. Caps rule, This is the first thing bugging me, I've been seeing mods and an admin telling users to not use caps when the user mearly says something in caps once, the current rule of caps states "Please do not use uppercase excessively" where on that part says excessively meaning they have a right to say something in caps once or twice as long it's not repeatedly used.

2. Back seat modding, This rule was simply added by one admin's annoyance with the users about telling other users to behave. The user has the right to backseat mod when there are no mods or admins present or are away from chat and I would like this rule to be removed.

These are the rules I have set up for change or removal, but if any problems persist with other rules feel free to discuss them here as well. -  Azki_icon.pngZeiluse Talkpage Nurse_Redheart%27s_cutie_mark.png 01:26, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. I always say chill on the caps rule, personally. There's no reason to stop a perfectly good discussion or conversation just for saying something in caps for emphasis. While I admit, the word "excessive" is subjective and up to moderator discretion, one or two lines in caps is not excessive by any means. About the backseat moderation, it's not at all just the mod's jobs to enforce the chat rules in the chat. The only difference between them and a regular user is that they have the ability to impose a kick or ban to further enforce repeated breaking of the rules. If anyone in the chat simply wants to tell another about a rule that they are breaking, then they have full right to.  Food 25px-Surprise.png  03:33, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
I disagree with #2. We have been given the right to enforce rules, and if regular users can do it too, then what's the point? Sure we can kick and ban, but so can admins and b-crats. With the whole "when they are away", it's not always done when no mod or admin is on. Sometimes plenty of them are on, and like 7 regular users will be like "NO CAPS blah blah blah", just for the heck of it. That's when it gets annoying. _|[31 (Talk) (How I have helped) 03:39, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
I admit that it does indeed get annoying, but you are not given the right to tell others about the rules that exist, as everyone has that right no matter what. You are given the right to further enforce them if necessary. I feel that it's starting to play out into politics in the chat. All users are equal, some are just trusted with a few extra buttons. Whether you are a chat moderator or a regular user with no additional rights, you always have the right to remind others of things like rules or certain ways of doing things. If problems persist and further action is necessary, then that's when chat moderators are able to step in with their "few extra buttons" to either kick or ban whoever as needed. You moderate the chat in ways that others cannot. Moderating the chat in ways that others can is not exclusive, it should be entirely inclusive.  Food 25px-Surprise.png  03:49, August 1, 2012 (UTC)
Again users have the right to back seat mod if there are no mods or admins on the chat or are away, this I have seen where there are only 1-3 mods while there are 24 users and the mods are stated as away. So yes granted they have the right again. --—Preceding unsigned comment added by KingLazy93 (talkcontribs)
I agree with both of these.
To begin with, the all-caps rule is simply unnecessary simply because it's just so strict. There should be no rule regarding if someone wants to type a line in uppercase or not. All-caps spam is what it is, spam, and can be dealt with like any spam. The amount of times I've banned or kicked for all-caps lies at the big fat number of zero. I don't enforce it because I don't believe it necessary.
Secondly, back-seat moderation is a must if we want the community to co-operate with one another in the chat. Too many times I have seen users who attempt to stop someone causing disruption be accused of being disruptive themselves, or at least have it implied. That's totally wrong, both from an administrative and moral point of view - people who try to help the chat should be able to do so without being reprimanded and told that they can't do it. Everyone has the right to tell someone to stop doing something if it is making them uncomfortable. Chat moderators and admins are not almighty dictators who can do whatever they want without anyone helping or challenging what they do.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  23:35, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Any other rules we may want to revise? After all we have covered two issues, and I think if there's going to be a fixing, it needs to be a major one instead of checking/modifying one rule at a time.  OC.gifForce talk CM.png 23:43, August 3, 2012 (UTC)

Not really these are two main things I keep seeing in the chat that admins or mods are abusing their powers in chat and I just want the regular users to be treated equally. -  Azki_icon.pngZeiluse Talkpage Nurse_Redheart%27s_cutie_mark.png 23:56, August 3, 2012 (UTC)
Firstly, I want to touch on the Backseat rule. I don't understand the bad part of it. I mean, how else will other good users and people giving a damn about the community and try to take care of some misbehaving users on the chat WITHOUT using moderation tools. I don't mean this should not be a rule at all. I don't want tattletales running around whining about people saying a bad word in chat or something. But, it should not be as strictly enforced. There's no harm in bringing a second voice in along with the moderator into telling the misbehaving user what he/she has done or to stop. Plus, like I said, it shows who cares about the chat and keeping it safe and troll-free and clean and etc. etc. Hell, it could even show people worthy of being a moderator! Secondly, the caps rule. I'm not saying it should be completley abolished either, but really, getting yelled at for only 3 words in caps is a bit too harsh. I mean, I don't want to see a wall of text in caps either though, but. For example. If someone wanted to quote a movie line, and the person was yelling for about 15 words, it would make sense to use caps for that, right? I'm sure just typing it plain in lower case would make it seem...less fun. But still, we should extend the caps rule to a bit more characters. Maybe...15-20? 25? 30? Not sure what the character limit is in general anyways. Or you could just completley abolish the caps rule anyways! I'm sure Caps Lock isn't THAT much of an eyesore. But, this is my opinion. Berry Punch BerryPunch.png (Contribs) 04:38, August 4, 2012 (UTC)
I think back seat modding is okay. And besides anyone who wants to be a mod has to "prove" they are capable and there is practically no way without backseat modding. I mean you just like warn the users to stop or they'll get kicked isn't bad at all. So I mean like it's just a stupid rule in my opinion. All backseat modding does is just help the mods and admins it doesn't do anything wrong. Arana Katana (talk) 05:19, August 4, 2012 (UTC)Alana Katana
Going to agree with Callofduty4 on this one. --Bullet Francisco (Talk) (Contribs) (Editcount) (Email) 17:29, August 6, 2012 (UTC)
I think the chat should be run democratically, and operate separately of the wiki (except the technical inclusion of admins as chat mods). Chat decisions could be made completely democratically on a forum, for example by creating Forum:Chat discussion, where every decision will be voted on. –Throwawaytv 08:48, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
That sounds absolutely awesome, but I'm not sure how well it would work it practice. Many of the people who attend the chat frequently edit the wiki very little, if at all. They don't check the forums, and even if we were to link the forum on the chat I'm not entirely sure if any of them would take the time to vote on things. I love the idea, but can you give a few examples of things that would be voted on for clarification?  Food 25px-Surprise.png  11:01, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
"New emoticon", "I want to be a mod", "new theme for the chat", "using the word derp should be a bannable offense", "please raise the minimum age to 65" and everything else. A "wall" style forum would be really great for this sort of thing. –Throwawaytv 17:31, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
Sounds absolutely awesome if you ask me. Great idea, Throwawaytv!  Food 25px-Surprise.png  21:26, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
Lol, well Throwy is right, we should make a forum, I guess making some guidelines before we create it though should be perfect.  OC.gifForce talk CM.png 23:50, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
I may not go to chat anymore, but this seems like the next logical evolution. Perhaps there could be a link to it included in the chat header, the same place where it directs wiki discussion to take place in the forums? It could be something like "Any discussions about the chat itself should take place in the forum specifically set up for that purpose". -- This is Jonny Manz, signing off! 04:14, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
Sounds about right Jonny, I like the idea  OC.gifForce talk CM.png 07:08, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
The forum is up and running. I think I'll stay out of it beacuse I managed to get 100% misunderstood with my very first post. –Throwawaytv 15:07, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
I agree with the caps rule being abolished completely, however I'm uncertain about the backseat one. Firstly, we get a lot of new users in the chat frequently, should someone backseat, some new users to the wiki might be unaware who are admins or chat moderators, which might cause confusion for the very new people (usually the ones with the default avatar). I've seen it happen a lot, although it's not that much of an issue in all honestly as the mods/admins can easily step up if that's needed. Secondly, I often see people backseat saying the following (for example) "Plz don't do that" and when the rulebreaker asks why, "Because it's against the rules" or "Go read the rules" which doesn't really tell the rulebreaker what they did on the spot, and how they could be aware not to do it again. Admins and chat moderators usually give a better explanation than a backseater, which will benefit the rulebreaker more because they will have a clearer picture on what they did wrong and how to not do it again, by getting it from a person who should be very clued up on on the rules. If no admins or chat mods are present, or they are totally AFK, regular chatters should be allowed to backseat to try and prevent the issue escalating any further. I don't really mind whether the rule stays or not, but I just thought i'd might as well give my opinion since i'm a chat moderator now. B0lGGoQ.gifOz   08:19, August 11, 2012 (UTC)

I don't get why no one understands why the backseat rule is in place. It's annoying as hell to see 10 regular users warn a user. It's OUR (chat mods and admins) job to do that, not just to kick and ban. If we just let everyone scream at a newbie for accidentally spamming or cursing too harshly, then it makes the user feel bad. I know if I was some fresh guy, I would be saddened to see a bunch of people I don't know harass me for breaking a rule when I didn't mean to. When one or two mods/admins say so, it's a heck of a lot better than when people not entrusted with rights to enforce the rules. Yes, when every mod and admin is AFK, then it's fine. But when we are about to warn, and a bunch of people do it, is our job half-pointless? I don't see why our job is done for us except when the extra bbuttons are needed. 6d9b956b91e0c92565e2a90a818bee37-d5gij3r.gifAppleJon-Talk 05:54, August 12, 2012 (UTC)

Role playing

In addition to my other post, I also think that the roleplay rule needs to made more stricter. Roleplaying at all in the chat usually makes it scroll much faster, and can get out of hand most of the time. It can easily get from moderate to excessive within a few lines, and most of the people in the chat find it irritating and useless. Of course it is fine in private chat if other chatters may want to do this with each other. But for most of the chat, it's absolutely useless. My overall conclusion is that it shouldn't be allowed at all in main chat, as I know that it's annoying other users as well as myself. I think it should be made to not be allowed in the main chat full stop, or at the very least more stricter. B0lGGoQ.gifOz   23:36, August 13, 2012 (UTC) Symbol strong support vote Strong support

Symbol strong support vote Strong support I agree with this completely as role playing in the main chat disrupts conversation and it's annoying. It's best if users role play using pms only as it doesn't disrupt anything. BluesirTheFox FANMADE BluesirTheFox sig image Private Pansy is best pansy 23:45, August 13, 2012 (UTC)

Symbol support vote Support - Sounds good, although generally people are pretty good about it. Exactly how strict you are about it is up to your discretion.  Food 25px-Surprise.png  01:33, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Symbol strong support vote Strong support I completely agree with Ozuzanna, chat flow can get disastrous and too fast if roleplaying is allowed, chat hack allow private multi PM rooms where people can go and roleplay if they want to do that.  OC.gifForce talk CM.png 04:21, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Symbol strong support vote Strong support I agree roleplay does get out of hand and there are users out their who don't think they are roleplaying when they are. OneforsevenPinkie_pie_cake_chancellor.png 13:20, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Symbol strong support vote Strong support If only all chats banned this. Sadly, that about the only thing they do over on Gravity Falls.  EvergreenFir  19:18, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Symbol support vote Support Roleplay is an annoyance in chat, and it's even worse when users complain that they can't. I agree with this.  qJENjks.gifレ∆ㄅrtVOpOl.png 21:02, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

Language use

This is more of a request for a more specific rule for this. I know for certain that damn, hell, and crap are allowed. Sometimes people are allowed to say p*ss, sometimes they aren't. I don't know for certain on that word, so I can say nothing for or against it. Is it allowed or not? And after we settle this, changing the rules to reflect this would be wonderful. Mod's discretion is not good for a rule like this. 6d9b956b91e0c92565e2a90a818bee37-d5gij3r.gifAppleJon-Talk 18:17, August 14, 2012 (UTC)

I have not been in the chat, but there are still some words which I don`t want to see on Wikia:
  • Cussing - B*tch, F**k, D@Fuq, WTF (use the full version if it is not a cuss word), bucking (when used as a censored version of F**k
  • Offensive behaviour towards ponies - M()lestia, Tr()llestia.
  • Offensive behaviour towards other people - D1ck, D1e (1=i).
These are examples of words upon using which users were warned and then blocked after second use. Teyandee (Talk) 18:32, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
Right now people are allowed to say "damn", "hell" and "crap" which are quite harsh so to be honest I'm not sure why such words as "p*ss" and "a*s" should be any different. One other thing I would like to touch upon is that if we allow the usage of "p*ss" then what about other swear words? 600px-Fluttershy_for_bluesir.pngBluesir 18:34, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
Given that this site is meant for people 13 and older, I feel that what can be said in a PG-13 movie should be allowed here. Things like "that pisses me off" or "what a pain in the ass" seem fine to me. Words like Tey mentioned above should still be off limits (though, imho, if someone lets one slip accidentally, it's not worth a ban).  EvergreenFir  19:17, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
Symbol strong support vote Strong support I agree with Jon, the rule should be made much more specific by stating what words are ONLY allowed, which would make any other derogatory/swear words automatically not allowed. I know it had a list of what was allowed before, but the "at mods discretion" part contradicted it in a way. Furthermore, it can be confusing for chat members because the admins/chat moderators might have conflicting opinions on which words are allowed, which may cause the chatters to have mixed signals; this isn't fair on any level as they can get banned for something which wasn't honestly their fault.
B0lGGoQ.gifOz   20:42, August 14, 2012 (UTC)~
Symbol support vote Support per Jon's and Ozuzanna's Statements.  qJENjks.gifレ∆ㄅrtVOpOl.png 21:02, August 14, 2012 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote Oppose - While it's good to get every mod on the same page, so to speak, I don't feel it's a good idea to list the only words that you can use. That's very restrictive and open to interpretation more so than "Excessively harsh language" itself. If we can get the mods on the same page about what is and isn't allowed, I don't think the current rule should change.  Food 25px-Surprise.png  02:02, August 15, 2012 (UTC)
Whatever gets us to clarification, at least among mods and admins. I only suggested a rule change as to prevent users saying "the rules don't say that" or some other BS like that. 6d9b956b91e0c92565e2a90a818bee37-d5gij3r.gifAppleJon-Talk 04:23, August 15, 2012 (UTC)
Symbol oppose vote Oppose per Food's statement 445px-101576_-_absurd_res_pinkie_pie.pngOneforsevenPinkie_pie_cake_chancellor.png 12:24, August 15, 2012 (UTC)
Weak Oppose Weak oppose I agree with Food, although we need to define some lines that would definitely mark the lines for people.  OC.gifForce talk CM.png 19:35, August 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well since we are talking about language, I also want about posting links in the chat with language in them. Ok, I can understand about links with so many curse words, but just few is what I really want to talk about. I posted a video once with not a lot of language in it and I got kicked for it. I showed it to an admin and said the video was ok to post. Now I got a little confused and thought that I can post stuff like that. This time, I post a gif with 1 curse word and I got kick. Now, I am very confused. Are we not allowed to post something with any curse words at all? I can link people what I posted but still, you think we should work on links with few curse words. That's all I got to say. 112px-Super_Smash_Solid_Snake.jpgProfessor Pickles (평화)FANMADE haedman2forsignature --"War has changed." 15:16, August 15, 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps you should give us some links, let's work which videos should be accepted, since it seems it is pretty much under the discretion of all people involved, and opinions do vary, so let's see what do you suggest.  OC.gifForce talk CM.png 00:18, August 16, 2012 (UTC)
I think that cussing should be allowed except for instances in which it insults someone, is used excessively, or isn't dirty Omega Shadow Wolf (talk) 00:22, August 21, 2012 (UTC)