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Return to Princess Luna

Flowing mane[]

Luna's flowing mane might indicate she is slowly regaining her magic power, as suggested in a comment by Lauren Faust on her deviantArt page. –Throwawaytv 18:38, November 14, 2011 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Flowing Mane Luna was only shown when she appeared at Night in Luna Eclipsed and the 2 Canterlot Wedding episodes, while the 'standard' mane Luna was shown only during the dawn and daytime during part 2 of Friendship is Magic (the episode), so perhaps Luna only gains a Flowing Starry Night-esque mane and tail when its actually night time, while she has a normal pony, and light blue, mane and tail during the day, when she's rarely seen to begin with. At least thats my theory until the Starry Night Flowing Mane is shown during the day time. Deva Ashera (talk) 19:16, July 24, 2012 (UTC)

The season 3 eight minute preview shows her with the starry night flowing mane when its still day time as when twilight leaves the castle the sun is out and the sky is blue, so that's probably a confirmed no now.Mariya Ranevskaya (talk) 03:28, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

The Elements of Harmony[]

When Princess Celestia lectured the mane six in The Return of Harmony Part 1, she said that she and her sister were no longer connected to the Elements of Harmony. But she didn't explain why. There are several possiblilties:

- the relationship between Luna and her sister isn't as harmonious as it seems at the end of Friendship is Magic, part 2.

- in that episode, Luna hasn't regained her full power yet and therefore was too weak to wield the Elements of Harmony together with her sister

- the use of the Elements by the mane six seperated the two princesses from their connection; and the mane six will be no longer connected when another group will use the power of the Elements

- the connection to the Elements has gone lost because once they were used to defeat Luna

- the connection has gone lost because Luna has been transformed into Nightmare Moon (but this isn't very likely as the mane six got corrupted, too)

Any other suggestions? I'm curious. Linneer 11:39, November 15, 2011 (UTC)

Tbh, onky one argument is needed to debunk all 'theories'. And thats that Celestia used the elements of harmony by herself agains't Luna, and I doubt that their relationship wasn't 'fractured' when Luna claimed to be jealous and angry.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.182.160.193 (talkcontribs) 00:37, 28 November 2011
You only repeat my theses 4 and 5 with other words. That's not debunking, that's just confirming. Linneer 22:32, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
I got this other theory, that the elements may only be used by someone with good intentions, or who is trying to mantain balance in the world. Or maybe Mollestia has admin rights on the elements and banned NM/Luna from using them.186.133.63.28 11:27, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
Do you think the princesses have no good intentions when it's up to defeat Discord again? Why? Linneer 18:13, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
I always assumed that Celestia and Luna can't use the Elements anymore because Twilight Sparkle and the other main ponies were connected to them now.--Wickedwizerd22 00:00, December 8, 2011 (UTC)
In other words, the EoH are Bind on Pickup.
Strictly my opinion, but I think Linneer's last three theories, above, are each partially true (in terms of the Ponyverse). Luna would have essentially broken her connection to the Elements by becoming Nightmare Moon, after all, but the Elements of Harmony aren't supposed to be wielded by a single pony anyway (as witness Celestia and Luna using them against Discord). Celestia was still able to use them to contain Nightmare Moon, but couldn't access their full power by herself (to say nothing of likely being scared of hurting Luna)... and for the Elements to be used against one of the Bearers, well... not particularly harmonious. 137.118.253.101 14:15, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Just a thought... which Elements do you think Celestia originally wielded, and which Luna? Given what little we see of their behavior, off the top of my head, I'd go with:
Celestia: Laughter ("Gotcha.", to say nothing of the Gala), Loyalty (waiting a thousand years for her sister), Kindness (oh, so many instances)
Luna: Magic (given her skill with illusions), Generosity (I admit I'm on shaky ground, here), Honesty (again, shaky ground)137.118.253.101 14:23, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Its shown at the start of season 3 that celestia weilds the elements of magic, kindness and generosity and luna had loyalty, honesty and laughter. These then spin around them both so it may be that they both have control of all elements which could explain how celestia could use them alone. weekimbo97 02:40 march 9, 2014 (UTC)
Clearly the reason neither can use them is because the Mane 6 solo-bonded each one which creates a stronger connection than the princesses' dual-wielding/trio-wielding skills. talk2ty 09:26, May 30, 2014 (UTC)

Nocturnal?[]

You know, there's probably a very simple explanation for this: Celestia, being the older and more powerful of the siblings, was the primary controller of the Elements of Harmony. When they fought Discord, Luna helped, but Celestia probably led the attack, much like how Twilight was in the lead whenever the mane six used the Elements. So when Luna was turned into Nightmare Moon, she was probably cut off from the Elements because she became a being of disharmony. But the spell that imprisoned Discord was still intact because Celestia was still connected to the Elements. Basically, at least one Pony from the previous group who weilded the Elements must still be connected to them for Discord to remain trapped. Wolfgang DelaSangre 10:06, December 24, 2011 (UTC)
I'm guessing since most of Luna's appearances were at night, and being princess of the night, Luna may be nocturnal. 71.80.81.1 17:02, April 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
Since she raises the moon which signals nocturnal creatures, she most likely switches with Celestia doing duties when night comes and vice versa so they don't overexhaust themselves, I imagine what struggle Celestia went through during those 1000 years if this were true.Mariya Ranevskaya (talk) 03:32, November 1, 2012 (UTC)
 Unfortunately the writers don't follow this idea consistently: in the episode Magic Duel, Twilight performs some magic for the delegates from Saddle Arabia, accompanied by Princess Celestia. Although it was at nighttime, Princess Luna again wasn't there. Why so? --Linneer (talk) 10:21, December 4, 2012 (UTC)
 
Several fan depictions of Celestia show her with pink hair. The way I see it, Celestia was born that way, Luna had her 'normal' hair at birth as well, but then she turned into Nightmare Moon. Celestia got her rainbow mane when she used the elements herself to banish Luna. Luna has her starry mane now simply because she's growing up, and was rather young when she was imprisoned. I mean, we went from winter to fall to summer again in just a few episodes, Lord knows the time elapsed between Friendship is Magic Part 2 and Luna Eclipsed. Just my two cents. Psycho Fox 09:10, June 17, 2012 (UTC)

More powerful than Celestia?[]

In the beginning, it is said that Celestia had to use the power of the Elements of Harmony to banish Luna to the Moon. That implies that either Luna is more powerful than her sister or that, when she got filled by the bitterness and jealousy and became Nightmare Moon, she got more powerful.

Another thing that leaves me thinking is how she knew about Starswirl the Bearded, down to the detail of the bells. Could it be that, just like Twilight Sparkle is Celestia's student, Starswirl was Luna's?

And to add more cospiracy theories, you guys think she's gonna teach Twilight magic somewhere around Season 3? I'm probably just picking straws and stretching everything, but why would Celestia prefer to risk the Crystal Empire than send Luna with the other girls? Also, the cold stare she gives to Twilight when she's leaving the throne room was kinda uncalled for, not to mention it's right after Celestia talks about Twi going up a level at her studies. Yea, it was the middle of a crisis, but being that stressed because she'd been left with protecting Equestria? I think she was also pondering on Twilight as her student. 189.21.130.210 17:43, November 12, 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps Luna is/was also Celestia's student, and she was jealous at how fast Twi has been advancing in her studies while Luna is still not back at full power after being brought down from NMM state; and since technicly she did betray Celestia, Twi can be the sole holder of the title of "most faithful student"... --Tigro Spottystripes (talk) 01:44, December 26, 2012 (UTC)

I guess we can confirm that Nightmare Moon is more powerful. I'm not sure about Luna, but Nightmare Moon easily defeats Celestia in the flashback of the Season 4 premier and only with the Elements was Celestia able to win Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 02:55, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

What is the true nature of Nightmare Moon?[]

At first glance, when we saw the episode, we all thought "Nightmare Moon is Luna corrupted, transformed by her jealousy and bitterness, and got decorrupted by the Elements of Harmony". That was what the episode implied. But now there are several theories about her which have even been hinted at by Lauren Faust, when she said "Luna was no longer present; jealousy buried her inside Nightmare Moon". It's also been hinted there was an outside force involved in the transformation.

This has led me to believe Nightmare Moon is a manifestation of Luna's dark side, all her jealousy and bitterness, magnified by the dark magic of this outside force to possess her. Also, while Luna was remorseful after being turned back, this can be explained by her becoming resentful enough to allow this transformation to take place, as well as saying "I've missed you so much" to Celestia, when Nightmare Moon would have hated her throughout those thousand years for banishing her, and imprisons her upon return.

What are your thoughts there? (and if you think of comics as canon, what of the nightmare forces?) Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 02:36, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

IMO the appearance is not an essential component of Nightmare Moon, she just looks that way because she wants to. A hint to that is Luna's "costume" on Nightmare Night. --Tigro Spottystripes (talk) 14:11, April 13, 2013 (UTC)
I always thought of that as her using her magic to take the physical form of Nightmare Moon, since it was her body transformed by the darkness after all. And it said "the bitterness in the young one's heart had transformed her into a wicked mare of darkness, Nightmare Moon".
Also, in the comics (even though I view them as non-canon) it's strongly implied that Nightmare Rarity is the spirit of Nightmare Moon possessing Rarity. (though IMO Nightmare Moon, or atleast the darkness in Luna that made her Nightmare Moon, was destroyed, shattered to pieces, by the Elements of Harmony in the second episode) Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 05:10, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
They could be talking about her personality, and not necessarily her appearance. --Tigro Spottystripes (talk) 09:30, June 27, 2013 (UTC)
If we're to believe in the genuineness of Twi's vision in PTSp2 then NMM is Luna's battle form. While it seemed emotional in nature, I would not say it is necessarily jealous, though anger and bitterness seem appropriate. We should assume vision-canon to trust legend-canon, and there are conflicts between them. Luna is never heard actually promising eternal night, just refusing to do her chores. Any introduction of an 'outside force' is mere retcon. talk2ty 09:29, May 30, 2014 (UTC)
To me, Nightmare Moon is Luna, driven mad with envy, tapping into the darker parts of herself. No, not in a Kami/Piccolo sort of way. Look at the Tantabus. It is a creation of Luna, right? Not quite. When it is defeated, it is absorbed into Luna, which suggests it is a part of her that she separated to punish herself rather than it being its own entity.
And let us look at the Tantabus' powers. It can corrupt dreams, is a smoky mist, and when it is about to escape into the real world, it looks-to me at least-like Nightmare Moon. You know, that sounds a bit familiar. Nightmare Moon herself demonstrated a couple of these powers, such as becoming mist and possibly using her connection to ponies minds when she confronts RD with the Shadowbolts. I think the Tantabus is a manifestation of the part of Luna's powers that fueled Nightmare Moon. With power over dreams naturally would come power over nightmares, afterall.
To me, Nightmare Moon is, physically, Luna tapping into her inner nightmare powers(which is why she can still take on that form in Luna Eclipsed) to have the power to back up her actions. And it is, emotionally, the result of Luna going mad and basically having the mentality of 'if they won't love me, they will fear me'. The Elements left her weakened and basically snapped her out of it long enough for her to realize that she has taken things way too far.--The Frisktaker (talk) 17:24, August 18, 2019 (UTC)

About entering the dreams...[]

When Scootaloo was about to wake up, Luna made a worried expression and hurried out of her dream. She disappeared into the moon in the last moment before Scootaloo woke up. Could it be possible that if someone wakes while she's in their dream, her mind will be trapped inside the dream realm? Xeoxer (talk) 20:43, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

I always personally thought that she was just concerned for Scootaloo and wanted to talk about her fears for longer. The last thing Luna says as she dissapears is "Face your fears!" and that she said it as a last attempt to help the filly. At the end of the episode she looks happy and relaxed that Scootaloo talked to Rainbow Dash about it.

My imagination of the dream world is much like where 'Celestia's ballad' takes place in 'Magical Mystery Cure', but instead of showing someone's life it shows dreams ponies are having. Luna watches the dreams once she has risen the moon and stops any bad ones, in order to enter a dream she must choose an object to help her manifest in the dream, (she chose the moon in Scootaloo's dream before showing up as herself, possibly because she was unable to suddenly appear.) The only problem of this is that Luna shows up as herself normaly in the first dream without taking place of an object or another character (unless she was a tree or rock). The only explaination I can really think of is that she wasn't a focus to Scootaloo in the dream, and couldn't speak to her unless she became a focus by strengthening her bond to the dream by manefesting through an object. Nocturekiero (talk) 16:11. October 29th 2013 (UTC)

Immortality[]

Is she immortal? She has to be. Think about it; how else could she have survived on the moon for 1K years with no food, water, or, that most vital necessity, oxygen?DBZFan12 (talk) 02:04, May 20, 2014 (UTC)

She wasn't on the moon. She was sealed in the moon. ImperfectXIII Wiki signature FANMADE ImperfectXIII OC pixel animation 02:38, May 20, 2014 (UTC) Semantics. How could she survive ANYWHERE for that long without all 3 of those things?DBZFan12 (talk) 17:02, December 4, 2014 (UTC)
In a word: MAGIC. --Kilmarnock228 (talk) 07:37, October 11, 2017 (UTC)
She was sealed inside the moon, and as for food and water, maybe as Nightmare Moon she doesn't need it, or maybe it's because it was a magical imrisonment like Sombra. (I have wondered something similar with Tirek though unless Tartarus contains a power keeping one from dying of starvation, hopefully it don't give eternal youth either and that Tirek is just naturally long-lived) KillRoy231 (talk) 22:34, August 29, 2018 (UTC)

Nightmare Moon like the Pony of Shadows?[]

We previously discussed the true nature of Nightmare Moon, deciding Luna just became Nightmare Moon on her own.

But Shadow Play adds a whole new dimension to this now. Stygian was rejected, he let a "Shadow symbiote" in, and when he took action against the Pillars - and only then - he transformed into the Pony of Shadows in a transformation sequence nearly identical to that of Luna becoming Nightmare Moon. Also the events leading to his transformation are similar to Luna's.

So how do we know Nightmare Moon isn't a similar fusion of Luna and a "Nightmare" symbiote? It would be consistent with Luna remembering everything she did as Nightmare Moon and calling Celestia "her sister" to let you know it's still Luna rather than outright possession, because in symbiote fusions the host is dominant yet corrupted by the symbiote. (While merged with Venom, Spiderman was still Spiderman but became a jerk, and Eddie was still Eddie but became a psychopath)

Plus there is a Legends of Magic comic to support this if I remember correctly, and those are in the same continuity as the show as far as I can tell. And the shards shown laying around Luna, unlike with Sunset, could be what's left of the symbiote, the Elements both doing away with it and lifting the jealousy and bitterness in Luna's heart that was there on its own.

A counter to this theory of course is that Luna could still physically take Nightmare Moon appearance in Luna Eclipsed, but she is an alicorn and Nightmare Moon was shown to be a shapeshifter beyond even what Chrysalis could do, turning to dark mist and a thorn. Sombra's dark mist form was a weakened state.

What are your thoughts on the symbiote theory? (which does of course seem similar to the Nightmare Rarity comics, except then Nightmare seemed to be outright possessing Luna and Rarity from the fact that Nightmare addressed Rarity directly) KillRoy231 (talk) 22:34, August 29, 2018 (UTC)

I had similar thoughts about the similarity of the Pony of Shadows to the Marvel symbiotes. Luna taking on the appearance of Nightmare Moon again is easily explained-if I recall correctly Ponies of Dark Water established it as a glamour spell that Luna could cast upon herself. That arc would seem to take some of the wind out of this theory, given that Luna becomes Nightmare Moon again without seemingly being possessed by anything. Of course, there's always the possibility that Nightmare Moon could have started out as Luna's own dark emotions and then evolved into a symbiote/parasite like being.--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 23:39, August 29, 2018 (UTC)
Interesting theory. Perhaps the same thing happened with Stygian, and the Well of Shade can sort of bring a person's dark emotions to life in that way. Maybe the shadow that spoke to Stygian and powered him up was created from his own dark emotions, even if he didn't know it. Though the Pony of Shadows is more powerful than Nightmare Moon, so Shadow seems to be a more powerful symbiote than Nightmare, especially since in their true forms Stygian is weaker than Luna. Maybe Stygian's bitterness was more powerful than Luna's was. They never did specify where the Shadow originated from. KillRoy231 (talk) 02:17, August 30, 2018 (UTC)
Indeed did they not, nor did they touch on the origins on the Well of Shades or Ponhenge. I'm actually working on some season nine ideas to address the issue. Sadly, I doubt it's something we'll ever get to know for sure from an official source. That is, of course, unless the darkness comes back somehow...--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 05:04, August 30, 2018 (UTC)
Someone else on another site thought of your "symbiotes evolved from their own dark emotions" theory on her own, without you or me to influence her. So it doesn't seem like such an uncommon theory, furthermore, while Luna and Nightmare would have acted as one while Nightmare Moon, Luna did say "I've missed you so much big sister" implying that while they were resting on the moon, they were somewhat separate, with Luna trapped inside Nightmare until their return, like when Twilight and Starlight were talking to Stygian inside the Shadow while they were still the Pony of Shadows. It actually fits. KillRoy231 (talk) 20:51, September 3, 2018 (UTC)

Mind reading[]

Dreams occur in a pony's mind like thoughts, albeit while they're asleep. My headcanon is that Luna's dream walking is really her mind reading powers that she primarily if not always uses in dreams because she can't interrupt a pony's everyday tasks during the day. In From Whom The Sweetie Belle Toils, Princess Luna shows Sweetie Belle a memory of her fifth birthday. That pretty much confirms that she has mind reading powers. In Through the Mirror AKA the chapter book version of My Little Pony Equestria Girls, a part in Chapter 3 quotes It's as if Princess Luna were reading Twilight's mind. They likely weren't being literal about this, but still. (User talk:Casualsister) 10:45, August 3, 2021 (EST)

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