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Forums: Index > Wiki discussion > Upcoming Policy Changes

Hello,

We wanted to let you know that in order to comply with federal law, Wikia is reviewing the way it handles communities that may be considered directed to people 12 years of age or younger.

This wiki has been flagged as falling into that category, and I wanted to let you know about it. While I am sure MLP has many fans of all ages, it can also be especially appealing to the younger demographic for purposes of the newly revised Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA).

The only change you will notice is that we will be turning anonymous editing and commenting off for wikis in this category. Your users will still be able to edit and participate. They just need to make sure that they are logged in first. We hope the impact on your community will be minimal.

We realize this might be an inconvenience, but this is a step Wikia has to take in order to make sure we are in compliance with federal law. You can find out more about COPPA here: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2012/12/coppa.shtm.

The changes to the law will be going into effect July 1st, 2013 although you may see some changes before then. Be sure to keep an eye on Community Central where we will be announcing these updates to the wider Wikia Community on Monday on the staff blog. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Thanks, and Happy Editing! --semanticdrifter (help forum | blog) 00:10, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I have a question. Will users with accounts still be able to comment, or will the comment sections be closed to everyone? Thanks, PowerStar89 (talk) 02:23, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
"Anonymous editing and commenting". ~Bobogoobo (talk) 40?cb=20120702121758 04:30, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
I think the question being asked is whether that means "anonymous editing and anonymous commenting" or "anonymous editing and all commenting". 64.118.119.131 05:11, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, 64.118.119.131 is correct. There is no "anonymous" before the word "commenting", Bobogoobo. PowerStar89 (talk) 12:08, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
It can be assumed in such a case given the context, which was plentiful. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 40?cb=20120702121758 05:36, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
Well, okay. The more I think about that, the more that makes sense. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. PowerStar89 (talk) 13:29, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
I don't see why user with accounts won't be able to comment. The whole thing sounds like it's directed at anons because some might be under 13, which has nothing to do with commenting in general. And it said "users with accounts can still edit and participate", I think "participate" would refer to commenting as well. Because users with accounts are over 12 (or assumed to be, but because of this kids under 13 might be forced into making accounts). So if I had to guess, I'd say "anonymous" refers to both editing and commenting. Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 03:51, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Makes sense to me. There is one problem that may arise. There are some users who cannot (or are extremely averse to) make an account. Is there a way for us to allow them to edit if we know they are not children? If not, we will need one (and it would make sense to have one, since the laws only apply to children). Also, it would be best if this were possible to do using parts of the full address, not just the IP. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 40?cb=20120702121758 04:35, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
Pictogram voting comment Comment I dunno if just being extremely averse to getting an account should be reason enough to be given an exception for those actually unable to get an account. 64.118.119.131 05:11, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

While I understand there is nothing that can be done to avoid this, I don't feel that this will be helpful at all. It will just encourage these children to make accounts without their parents permission. If anything, this will make the problem worse because they'll become regular users as they join the chat and meet each other. This measure fails to do anything to stop minors from using wikia, and if anything will encourage them to use the site actively. The internet allows for alarming anonymity, and there is no way to prove that children are actually using the site. After all, they are using an internet connection to connect- which is owned by an adult. I'm afraid that I fail to see how this new wikia policy will be productive at all, and it seems more like an inconvenience that in the long run will irritate users of the site and increase the number of minors we see on the site. Land of Confusion http://th05.deviantart.net/fs46/150/i/2009/204/2/5/Disturbed_Guy_by_Djman5000.pngDiscord Prevails "We're nice grandmas" - grandma 05:59, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Wikia has to be shown at least attempting to combat the issue. --Spongebob456 talk 06:21, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
These measures are primarily to better abide to a law. I would say registering an account is safer for kids anyway so they get their IP addresses removed from public view when they contribute.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  07:20, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

I don't get this line "We hope the impact on your community will be minimal." Sadly removing anonymous editing removes one of MediaWiki's core attributes: I don't think it can be minimal. That's really quite sad - is it fully necessary that Wikia has to do this? I understand the whole legality of it and I'm not going to ignore that, but I wonder if there's a better solution than removing something that makes up an integral part of all wikis. I'm all for people making accounts, but I believe that people should always have the ability to edit and participate while logged out.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  07:25, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

It's not a big deal to have to click, after registering, two buttons (or, if you have it remember your login, a grand total of zero buttons) in order to edit. I'm pretty sure all wikis have always encouraged people to create accounts instead of editing by IP. It's better in many ways. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 40?cb=20120702121758 07:41, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
I've always believed Wikia wikis to be open in such a way that the act of registration is not required. I'm not sure why Wikia's prior stance on COPPA was not sufficient. It's not about inconvenience, making a Wikia account is a painless process. Maybe if I heard why Wikia's prior stance was insufficient to confide with the law now then I would probably better understand.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  17:17, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
I guess you didn't click the link OP gave. It clearly says, that COPPA is being amended on July 1st. The Wikia stance changes, because law itself is being changed. Vengir (talk) 18:33, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
Oh. I read the article but didn't see that line. Was focusing too much on "For Release: 12/19/2012". Okay now that makes more sense.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  18:34, June 21, 2013 (UTC)
Dura lex sed lex. I don't like this change either: if I couldn't start editing without registering and getting used to all of that, I probably wouldn't make an account, but it looks like we'll have to comply with this new rule. Vengir (talk) 09:10, June 21, 2013 (UTC)

Anons, if you want to comment on MLP somewhere after July 1st, there is a site called GameTalk X.0, modeled after Mike's old GameTalk before he died and the place shut down. It has its own My Little Pony section where you can ask questions and say things there. Better yet, you don't have to register an account there, just type in a username and password. Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 03:51, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Username and password sounds a heck of a lot like an account to me, whether it's called one or not. And there are tons of other places, too. Or, making an account here, if one is at least 13. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 40?cb=20120702121758 11:21, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to go on a whim and say that making an account here is probably easier than going somewhere new and "typing in a username and password", which sounds really similar to "making an account".  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  12:29, June 22, 2013 (UTC)


I am not sure that Wikia knows what are they doing and what will be the consequences of this action. The purpose for COPPA is to make sure that the user, who edit Wikia is either a 13+ year old person or a person who is under 13 but acting with a permission and under supervision from an adult? How will disabling the anon comments and editing help them to do it? Adults can also edit Wikia without creating an account.

What this may lead to:

1) Activity recession - some people would not want to bother creating an account.
2) Influx of accounts with fake age information - since there is no way for Wikia to check the age, what prevents anyone from submitting a register form with an age that is 13+? Teyandee (Talk) 00:45, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely nothing is stopping people from creating accounts with fake ages. By creating an account, they agree that they are either age 13 or older or have permission from a parent or guardian to create an account. At that point, Wikia is off the hook for being responsible for COPPA until someone admits that they aren't age 13 or older.  Food 25px-Surprise.png  01:03, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
But can we believe a user when he says about his or her age? I think no as we have no proof. Teyandee (Talk) 01:13, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
I don't believe we have to believe them iirc . As long as they agree to the ToU, they are 13 or over as far as Wikia and COPPA are concerned. I might've misread something, so correct me if I'm wrong.  Food 25px-Surprise.png  01:23, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ugh. As said above, I can't see how this would not negatively affect any wiki. You're effectively cutting the amount of editors. An alternative that I can see to this is a popup before being able to edit with a confirmation that the anon is indeed age 13 or older or has permission (similar to how you agree to the ToU when you create an account).  Food 25px-Surprise.png  01:03, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Actually there are quite a few things that it will improve, and creating an account is extremely easy. Furthermore, people who create an account without being at least 13 are lying and will be punished in some form for that (I don't mean legally, unless they state their age and receive a global block). The only thing that we conceivably lose from this is the type of person who somehow does not have a Wikia account already, sees some minor thing that needs to be fixed, but doesn't want to create an account to do it. That's of course still a helpful contribution, but it'll be done eventually anyway. Heck, if they do decide to create an account to fix it (I would, in that situation, because my amount of laziness towards a simple signup process is not greater than my desire for the quality of a information center such as this), maybe that would even cause them to stick around more than they would have. On a wiki like ours, where we do get a lot of underage traffic, I think this could actually have a positive outcome, at least for my standards. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 40?cb=20120702121758 05:36, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
Can you please name several things that will be improved after disabling anon comments and editing? Teyandee (Talk) 08:34, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
Preventing some spambots, preventing some of the ridiculous and unhelpful or vandalism edits we get, and making it easier to track people who are consistently disruptive but have a dynamic IP. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 40?cb=20120702121758 10:05, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
This may be the only good thing about the upcoming change. You would be able to block vandals indefinitely since they will have an account. Teyandee (Talk) 13:20, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

This won't affect wikis that are on a different server meaning those wikis will stil be targeted by spammers and vandals.Daipenmon (talk) 13:30, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

Unless those sites will be forced to disable anon comments too. Teyandee (Talk)
    If the servers that run those wikis are located in the United States, then the people or companies that run those wikis are required to follow the US COPPA law, just as Wikia is. If they choose not to, then that is their decision. But they need to realize that if it can be proven that kids under 13 are using their website and they do not have on record legal permission from those kids' parents or guardians, then they are breaking that law.
    It is expensive and time-consuming to keep records like this. Many companies can't afford it, and if they were sued because they were shown to not follow the law, they might have to cut back on what they offer or go out of business. In Wikia's case, "cutting back" could equal closing wikis.
    For everyone who has been complaining about not being able to edit here, remember that this change isn't about that. This is about obeying a law (and most of the complaints have acknowledged that), which helps Wikia stay in business. If you don't like the law, you have to contact your Congressperson and convince them to get the law changed or repealed. —RRabbit42 (leave a message) 15:11, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
After disabling the anon comments will they be sure that all kinds under 13 are using the sites with the adult's permission? Teyandee (Talk) 15:51, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
Foodbandit addressed this earlier today. If a kid lies about what age they are when they account or that they have the adult's permission, we can't do much about that other than set a block when we find out. But this change by Wikia means that if that if a lawsuit is filed against them, then it's no longer a case of "Wikia did not take the proper steps to keep that underage kid from going to their website". The responsibility for what happens as a result of that lie is now on the end user, not Wikia. —RRabbit42 (leave a message) 16:09, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
Do they have such responsibility now? Teyandee (Talk) 17:34, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be easier to just put a notice that says when making an anon comment that "You agree that you are 13 years of age ~" and so forth? Land of Confusion http://th05.deviantart.net/fs46/150/i/2009/204/2/5/Disturbed_Guy_by_Djman5000.pngDiscord Prevails "We're nice grandmas" - grandma 20:18, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
It would. But I'm assuming that wouldn't be enough to comply with the law, which is a shame since that's much better than turning off anon editing entirely.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  23:29, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
If it has to comply with the law, then go for it Wikia. As Bobogoobo said earlier, we are a big enough wiki that many anon edits, which are just little quick-fixes, can easily be replaced by other users and it will save some of the spambots and vandalism-trackers from doing extra work. We will probably lose some great anon editors because they don't want to make accounts and we will lose some people from coming to this wiki, but overall a wiki is for displaying information, not making an anonymous community. FANMADE Pinkie portal front by blackgryph0n-d3f93p8Lord of Shadows Words mean nothing!FANMADE Pinkie portal back by blackgryph0n-d3f93p8 16:17, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
To clarify: this will only affect anonymous commenting. We sincerely hope that everyone who is eligible signs up for a user account and continues to contribute to the wiki. You are free to encourage users who are old enough to register via http://www.wikia.com/Special:UserSignup. There likely will be some reduction in activity, but we feel that is a valid tradeoff with making sure we are complying with federal law. We do respect the value of anonymous editors' contributions. --semanticdrifter (help forum | blog) 17:31, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
Commenting as in only using the comment feature? If that's the case, then I'm not all that worried about it. So this will not affect their ability to edit?  Food 25px-Surprise.png  19:02, June 24, 2013 (UTC)
Editing and commenting. Basically, anything other than reading. --semanticdrifter (help forum | blog) 19:16, June 24, 2013 (UTC)

How do we want to encourage anonymous users to create accounts? I assume MediaWiki:Welcome-message-anon will no longer have any effect since it is only used upon making an edit. I suppose we'll see what things look like once the change takes effect - whether there is some kind of message when anons try to edit or comment. We can add things if not. We could also add something to MediaWiki:Community-corner (displayed on Special:WikiActivity), perhaps. ~Bobogoobo (talk) 40?cb=20120702121758 00:52, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

If Wikia provides a system message to anons asking them to sign in to edit/comment, that should do the job. It'd be cool if that system message would be modifiable too.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  17:54, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

I, for one, am happy that we won't be getting any more anonymous commenters filling up pages with irrelevant discussion. Maybe forcing them to create an account will encourage them to make more pertinent posts. Dogman15 (talk) 21:31, June 25, 2013 (UTC)

Blog Post Up[]

For more info on this change, please see the Community Central blog post. Feel free to comment on the general policy there, and keep the wiki specific discussion here. Thanks, --semanticdrifter (help forum | blog) 19:16, June 24, 2013 (UTC)



Changes are going into effect tomorrow. This will definitely affect our Wikia. I hope our unregistered contributors will make an account and continue editing. Teyandee (Talk) 11:29, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

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