Hi there and welcome to my talk page. Feel free to leave a message about anything! I will reply to your message on this page, and I will 99% of the time reply within 24h. I do also appreciate it if you sign your posts with ~~~~ as it makes it easier to see who is sending the message. Thanks and happy editing!
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ANNOUNCEMENTS - College + other stuff
Hi Cod4, we're pals and I wish to remain that way.
I feel some of your actions were a bit unfair. An example of this is when you said what you did about the sentence lengths when I asked Madness not to post " no???????????????????????????". I'm only trying to make things consisent. Mods have always asked people not to do this sorta thing and I'm just trying to keep it fair. I would really appreciate it if you could please PM me next time you feel I've made a mistake as I would be able to digest it a lot easier.
"madness how dare you!!!!"
"how dare you post punctuation....."
"how dare you post a line that was shorter than this one and get warned for it!"
20:30, April 14, 2015 (UTC)
Here's another one. This time for a "crazy3" emote featuring Hillbilly Rarity based off of this: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/anq2E6HP--8/maxresdefault.jpg. Once again, just the head will do. 01:25, April 17, 2015 (UTC)
- Will totally do that for you ASAP. 07:31, April 19, 2015 (UTC)
I understand that you may not follow my philosophy, but i would etleeast like for you to accept it as existing, I do not think i am jesus, I am me, i am simply someone who came up with this method of morals, it was simply a comparison, but you jumped the gun. It is ok though, all i ask of you, is to think about it. Society is not always right, do not be blinded by it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by animationfan9999 (talk • contribs)
- Why is my talkpage becoming a site for people to dump nonsense? 07:31, April 19, 2015 (UTC)
I think you'd want to see this.
Here's your loyal mod Lasifer, being a great citizen. http://i.imgur.com/2gWEfIb.png?1 08:11, April 19, 2015 (UTC)
- Are you being any better with that attitude, UP? If this is how you chose to behave after someone makes an error then that feels like a significantly greater and more profound issue than someone just swearing at another dude. This is exactly the problem I tactlessly mentioned when I left chat last night. This is exactly what I meant. It is so lame to see that no one actually cares about it. I don't care about someone swearing at another user UP, that is a problem that can be sorted out by just talking with the guy. I care about the serious attitude problem that pervades this website, where we literally give not a single damn towards a user as a person, we only care about whether or not they can get their volunteer "job" done.
- So no UP. I don't want to see it. Especially considering I had to look in the chat logs myself to see the context of why that actually happened, which was another person haranguing him which led to him cussing them out like that. Should Las have done that? Nah, of course not. It's not okay to break the rules like that. But it's also not okay to treat this as a race to demote or discipline the first person to break the rules in a situation. That's not how it should work. People are more complicated and important than a set of rules on a website. Complicated situations are not solved by simple solutions like bans and demotions.
- I never want to hear someone ever accuse me of not doing my job when they have no idea of what my "job" actually entails. I've been making sure that the majority of people here are happy ever since I was entrusted in the position to do so. It's not as easy as it looks dude, especially considering that I am fighting a constant battle against the attitude of "people don't matter, their jobs do". Whenever people have an issue they want sorted out they always come to me. I am always the person who ends up sorting out (sometimes very complicated) social problems. That's evident in the way I was basically blamed for everything that happened earlier this morning; I am the final fallback for everything that happens there. Whether it be for good or bad.
- So this goes out to anyone who thinks I've ever been biased, unfair or "haven't done my job". Nothing is ever as simple as your simple words would lead you to believe. Keeping people happy is hard, do you think I enjoy seeing people upset at something that happened and could have been handled differently? I don't like that at all. I can only do my best, but a lot of the times I am expected to be perfect. That's an unreasonable expectation and I will never be made to feel upset, sad, or like a failure for not matching it. If you wanted a community where people did their jobs perfectly, you came to the wrong website. But you'd be looking for a long time to find exactly what you want.
- Not all of this response is directed at you UP, but rather at the conglomerate of people who feel that it is their place to tell other people what to do. Even telling people who have responsibilities as complicated as our moderators and admins have. If people think being a mod or an admin is as simple as just banning people then they're wrong. Everyone who holds moderator and admin rights has at one point proven themselves to be capable of using them, to the level of professionalism expected out of this website. People make mistakes. Wikis are a platform for people to make mistakes and learn from them. Wikis are not a platform to punish, ostracize and hurt feelings for making mistakes.
17:07, April 19, 2015 (UTC)
- This is a response on the behalf of several, Callofduty4. I would have posted this reply on your recent blog, but I feel it's better here. Consider this a reply to all you've just said, both here and on the blog, as well as everything that I and several others have been witnessing quietly for far too long. I don't mean to harass you. Rather, take this as a few words of advice, because while you undoubtedly have your views from up there in the admin seat, we normal users also have a say. Read carefully, please.
- I realize you admins and mods are volunteers. I acknowledge the fact that you are humans behind this computer screen. Nobody is perfect, and that's the first rule of community and society. But I've seen this phrase used far too often here as an excuse for letting diligence slacken. You, as volunteers, should realize the responsibilities you are undertaking by choosing, of your own free will, to keep your positions. Do you know what disheartens us? I, for one, am disheartened by the fact that it's okay for mods of today's chat feed the trolls with excuses of "nobody's perfect," make joke houses out of passive troll visits, and overlook the trolls entirely for long periods of time while being quick to turn on and swarm any normal user who dares question their conduct. I find it disheartening that mods can pick and choose who they kick and ban, and for what—I've seen normal users get kicked because they kept trying to ping the mod while there was a troll problem! ("It was annoying.") But among the most disheartening of this chat's disappointments, Cod, is the fact that you allow this blatancy to continue. And with what excuse, in essentiality? "Nobody is perfect. We're volunteers."
- You talk about a "level of professionalism expected out of this website." The argument you make is that mods will sometimes fail to meet this level because we, as humans, aren't perfect, and the mods are volunteers. I'm cool with that, and anybody who isn't doesn't have his head screwed on right. But you're using the good old Nobody's perfect to defend the "standard" as it falls entirely to one of blatant negligence. You say people make mistakes to learn from them. Live what you preach and try learning from them. 23:01, April 19, 2015 (UTC)
- No one is making a joke out of anything. The user was not kicked because they weren't "passive trolling". They were being given a chance to share what they wanted to share. Once they were "passive trolling" they were kicked. I literally don't know what's the problem with that. You claim that "nobody's perfect" is being used to allow a slip in diligence without actually providing any meat to that argument. No one's diligence is slipping. No one is feeding the trolls by letting someone share their albeit strange views on a topic.
- No one is quick to turn on any "normal user" either. I'm pretty sure the point of what I said was to explain that that's wrong. If you wish to take what I said as an excuse then I'm sorry you think that but I wasn't providing any excuses. You also claim I "allow" things to continue when I'm literally stepping in right now to make sure this trend doesn't continue. Which side of the argument do you wish to be on? What do you want me to do? I'm literally attempting to disallow this type of situation but you're sitting here telling me I'm actually allowing negligence. Do you think I would ever for a second allow a moderator to chat idly while someone is breaking the rules? Absolutely not. I'm offended you think that's how I work. I am not providing excuses, I am explaining why it is totally uncalled for to berate and abuse other users in the middle of chat for making a mistake. I never once said that the situation was handled in the best way possible.
- I appreciate your input into this discussion but to respond to your final point, I live exactly what I preach. I hear everyone's input on the matter, as I said in my blog everyone on this website is equal, they have equal say, they have equal opportunity and receive equal treatment. I don't value any user's input any more than anyone else's. The admin seat is not "up there". It's about as down-to-earth as you could imagine. It is simply impossible to manage a website and maintain users' trust if you're not on the ground. I see eye to eye with everyone else. I know that you and others are upset and trust me I am trying to make things better. While I am doing that, I don't really appreciate being told that I'm not doing my job when in fact I am pretty sure I do it all the time. I'm doing it now by responding to you in a manner in which we see eye to eye. 00:08, April 20, 2015 (UTC)
- And I appreciate the fact that you're taking the time to respond. My apologies if I'm sounding aggressive at all, Cod, but I feel the need to speak up after all that I've seen--and I have seen those instances involving moderators making mistakes. I realize mistakes are to be expected, but when they keep happening and it gets to the point that not even fellow mods will help pick up the slack, it gets to be a little disconcerting.
- Just to point something out, if you'll look at the logs, you'll see that the troll got away with quite a bit of preaching, and that started a noticeable argument over beliefs--the argument went on for a good amount of time and was never addressed. How the troll managed to mention Hitler and Nazis without a warning is also beyond me. Now, this may have been a mistake, Cod, but you should take note, as there was a sizeable array of mods on chat at the time. Are we to assume that everybody simply made the same mistake at the same time..?
- About your approach, I don't know why you need to address only the users who spoke up about the mod conduct. I realize that mistakes happen, Cod, but maybe you should take steps to address both sides. If we came across as rude or aggressive, I apologize again. But I don't think we should be lectured so quickly when we've pointed out the late flaws in the system. We were dismissed as "weenies" for not accepting "fun." But making "fun" out of a troll's invasion shouldn't be allowed either, Cod, and I have seen this happen before. You speak of the equality you try to uphold, but a different view makes itself known in the way the problem is being addressed.
- Please just acknowledge both sides of the case. If the "situation" you're seeking to prevent is that one where the normal users "berate" and "abuse" the mods, you're looking at this wrong. If we all make mistakes, let's all address them. It comes across as unfair when we're told off for speaking up when everybody could improve. 02:36, April 20, 2015 (UTC)
- The situation I am trying to prevent happening is one where people feel that not enough was done that then leads to hurt feelings like those you're sharing with me now. I accept your apology and offer my own that you feel that you're not listened to. You are listened to. I promise. I hear you loud and clear. But because I can hear you loud and clear (and have always been able to) please don't let me hear the tone we got in chat yesterday. We hear you, whether you're soft spoken or unnecessarily harsh. Choose the one which is going to have the most positive returns. I have no problem with you raising concerns. At all.
- I'm also not trying to lecture you. I'm giving you an alternative perspective. You are totally permitted to reject it entirely. I'm also not telling anyone off, I'm explaining that if you have problems with something a moderator/admin has done then there are cordial and respectful ways of initiating conversation about it, none of which were shown at the point in time we are discussing now.
- To directly respond to a couple of the points you put down, users don't get warned for mentioning "Hitler" or "Nazis". They can be asked to stop the conversation but mentioning them by no means leads to an instant warning. As such, are we to believe everyone made a mistake, or no one made a mistake? Maybe you could say someone should've asked for the conversation to be dropped, but considering instant warnings aren't given for the mere mention of Hitler and/or Naziism then I don't really see how all the mods "made the same mistake". You also weren't dismissed as weenies for "not wanting fun". It was the tone with which the complaints were being put forward. Yes, the tone was totally unnecessary and counterproductive. Especially considering after I left, remarks were made behind my back. That's not how conversation works.
- Again, thank you for your response. 13:22, April 20, 2015 (UTC)
- Very well, Cod—if mentioning such subjects is apparently okay, I have no business extending an argument over Hitler/Nazi incidents. I still think the whole preachy argument should have been addressed much sooner, but I'm not going to keep the sting of that repetition on your ear.
- Like I've said before, I'm sorry if we came across as rude last night. The response wasn't so great either, Cod—perhaps you weren't there when we were openly dismissed as "weenies" for what we had to say. Such arguments will be brought up through PMs in the future. But when three users (and others on different occasions) speak up in main about mod conduct, there is a problem to be addressed on both sides. In fact, we are often ignored entirely when we make suggestions. I'm done being ignored, Cod, because no matter how much you ask us to be "nicer" with suggestions, it doesn't change the problem that we have been watching for too long and are trying to address with any sort of acknowledgement now. The fact that such a speak-up was considered necessary on the part of several and more than just the small handful who were involved in that particular incident should be concerning for both of us.
- If you hear us loud and clear, please start understanding and addressing the problem that we are trying to point out. This whole altercation is pointless if improvement won't be made on both our parts. 15:03, April 20, 2015 (UTC)
- I'm working on it. I still don't think you quite understand that solving the problem is more complicated than you're letting on by ordering me to simply "address" it, as if I haven't been doing that already. 15:14, April 20, 2015 (UTC)
I'm not "ordering" you to do anything. One of the first things I established was that you should take this as a strong word of advice, and I daresay I'm being quite civil. Now, I'm not the one in the admin seat--I wouldn't know all of what it's like to be you--but helping the community to fix problems like this is one of the responsibilities that you willingly carry as a volunteer. Know that we appreciate the effort you put into everything, Cod, but on behalf of several others who have similar concerns, please just do the best you can. The weight of the entire situation does not rest on only you. It will take a smaller change on everybody's part rather than an earthshaking veer on yours alone.16:27, April 20, 2015 (UTC)
- Finally, someone gets that not everything is my fault. I do help the community fix problems which is why I posted the blog as starting point. I'm literally trying as hard as I can. I need you and anyone else with similar concerns to help me. PM me on chat. Message me here. Contact me on Skype. Tell me what you want. Change is better effected when people are willing to have mindsets that promote change. We can't sit here and tell people to "do their jobs"; that's not how change happens. I am listening to all users with similar concerns, but I can't force anyone to have change-promoting attitudes. It's not very fair to want change but treat the people who have responsibility to help guide change like they're some sort of tool that can be waved around like a magic wand. And yes, I am still bitter about that. That's been a serious damper on my mood ever since it happened so forgive me if I'm a little bit upset.
- Also I need to let you know that I don't accept people speaking on behalf of others as somehow being a magnifier for the points being presented. As I have told a lot of people here personally, I expect individuals to come and speak up about their concerns. I respect that you are simply making it easier for them by voicing concerns on their behalf, but for me to fully understand everyone's individual feelings and thoughts, I must hear from them too. 18:32, April 20, 2015 (UTC)
- Then I hope that in light of these events a few other users will think to bring their concerns to you with their own voices, because my visits to chat from here on will most likely be sporadic. I won't be mentioning names here aside from the obvious UnknownProdigy and Guildmaster Grovyle--talk to them if your willing to do so is mutual. That aside, here are my main personal words:
- When there is a troll in a busy main chat, it's best if the situation is dealt with briskly. I understand that the mod force is sometimes few, and that there's not much that anybody can do when the mods are AFK because of real life reasons. However, when there are several mods on and active at the same time, staying oblivious or even making fun out of the situation as a troll preaches or argues (and this has happened before), that's where something is wrong. When a user speaks up about mod conduct, however "berating" it may be, a response more respectful and open than outright ignorance or retorts asking in what manner we want our aft ends wiped would be appreciated. Two wrongs don't make a right.
- Thank you for your time. Have a nice night. 03:03, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
- It's just not as simple as "dealing with it briskly". I really have no idea how to explain this to you in any other way. In the big picture of your argument here, you're basically telling us to "do our jobs" when I have been trying to develop conversation where we drop that counterproductive attitude (and yes this is a serious problem that needs to be fixed). It can be hard to discern what is "passive trolling" and what is simply someone just talking about weird things. What is "passive trolling" to one person could be totally acceptable to another. It is subjective. A moderator who takes care to fairly deal with a situation rather than have their finger on the ban button at all times is "doing their job".
- Again I am not saying that the particular situation we are talking about was handled properly. I am explaining that the solution is not to deal with things "briskly". It is certainly not "best" if the only way we judge how a situation was handled is the time it takes to handle it. That is not a useful metric. You are correct that speaking up in a berating and holier-than-thou tone is probably better than not speaking up at all. That doesn't mean it's okay. You're using a preconceived fear of not being listened to as an excuse for this behaviour, a fear which has not been proven and let it be known now, isn't rational. Everyone gets listened to. Remember that just because no changes were made doesn't mean you're not listened to. Being listened to doesn't guarantee things will happen. It means things will be considered. And what you are saying is always considered. 17:03, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
- Why do you maintain that I'm "telling you to do your jobs"? In the big picture of my argument, Cod, I am giving you my albeit strong suggestions. Look up, there they are. Here are my personal views--here is my reflection and well-meaning advice for the chat. I have asked you not to get your eyes back on a "duty" but to consider advice from community members. This much has been established--please don't accuse me of otherwise. As you have said yourself, you are volunteers, not professionals. Thus, you should be open to the legitimate suggestions of the community and put forth reasonable effort to fix the situation rather than scorn tone alone. We come with our views because we want change, Cod--I'm not commanding it. It's not my place to do so, nor is it anybody's. Do acknowledge and understand these words. I have a moral obligation to tell you what I think could be better, and this is for the enjoyment of not only myself but of others as well.
- Did I seem like that much of a counterproductive whiner earlier? If so, I apologize once again. But I think I am being quite civil now. Is my current tone not productive or reasonable? 20:27, April 21, 2015 (UTC)
boy if you dont
the people demand more (nice) and (ankle) cod dont let me catch you slacking off again mister20:40, April 22, 2015 (UTC)
- we're watching you Madnessfan34537 08:18, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
- not if i take your eyeballs 16:25, April 23, 2015 (UTC)
Can I ask where your avie is from? I mean, I know it's Twilight but do you know the artist or something? I really like the art style and find it really cute. (:P)
If you could send it to me, it'd mean a lot.
08:09, April 24, 2015 (UTC)
- I found a picture of it here. (:P)  08:14, April 24, 2015 (UTC)